Doula Debrief Podcast 

Season2, Episode 1 Transcript

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Ali Buchanan (00:07) Hello, and welcome back, guys! In this episode of the Doula Debrief Podcast, we are getting into Season Two. Can you believe it, Marnellie, Kimberly? How long has it been?

Marnellie Bishop (00:20) Three years since we last recorded. Yeah.

Ali Buchanan (00:23) It can’t be.

Marnellie Bishop (00:24) So much has changed.

Ali Buchanan (00:25) So much has changed. We’ve got some new team members.

Kimberly Porter-Ukeje (00:29) Mm-hmm. Excited about that. Yeah.

Marnellie Bishop (00:33) We’ve got new team members, we’ve got new space, we’ve got new gigs, we’ve got new swag — we’ve got new everything. Everything’s new. Everything has been renewed in the last few years since we recorded. Or maybe not renewed — I would just say, really, more in alignment with who we are, right? I think we kind of came in — we came in with an agenda, and something wanting to do. But now we’re like, okay, now we really know what we want to do. And then we just took off.

Kimberly Porter-Ukeje (01:06) Yeah, we’ve really gotten street cred in the Portland doula community. I mean, we were kind of in the background for a little bit, but now we’re full force, and we have a credible reputation — a brand that we’re building at CDA. So, yeah, our street cred is really good. We have some good nuggets here, and it’s just growing every day.

Marnellie Bishop (01:29) Well, Miss Kimberly, why don’t you — it’s been a while since people have gotten to know, or seen, or heard from our podcast. Why don’t you introduce yourself — even with your new name? Hello! Tell us, tell us all about your new name.

Kimberly Porter-Ukeje (01:47) Yes, everyone. I am Kimberly Porter. I recently got married to an amazing Igbo Nigerian man, so now I am Kimberly Porter-Ukeje. Very proud of that. I’ll just start off with this: it’s been amazing, the last five years. It’s just a dream come true. When we first did the first podcast, it’s just been a — a vision. It has come to fruition, and I’m really excited about how we’re growing, how we’ve just grown over the last five years. And just really honored to be the CEO of CDA. It’s been an honor and a blessing, and I’m very privileged to be a part of — well, with all of you, all you ladies. I’ve loved working with each and every one of you all, and I’d love to continue to work together with you all as well. So, yeah. Welcome to the podcast.

Marnellie Bishop (02:35) Welcome to the podcast. Yeah. And I’ll take some moments to introduce myself — Marnellie. I am the CFOO. So I guess that’s how things have changed a little bit too. You know, we came into this with these kind of titles — executive director, treasurer — and then we really elevated. We moved into C-level positions, you know. Kimberly Porter-Ukeje, founder, CEO. And now I sit in the position of Chief Finance and Operations Officer, as well as the trainer for our organization. So over the last, you know, five and a half years almost, we’ve been able to train 10 cohorts of doulas — over 90 doulas — through one of the people I’m going to introduce here in just a moment. We’ve been able to increase our grant funding to help continue to grow our organization.

We’ll highlight it a little bit later too. We moved into our own space. So it’s really exciting to see, and to watch, how things have moved and shifted over the last five and a half years. So I’m going to pop it over to Nia, to just introduce herself and her role here at CDA.

Nia Harris (03:45) Hello, everyone. What a joy it is to be invited to the Doula Debrief podcast. I’ve been a fan, and now I get to be on it — how exciting. I’m here on the CDA team as the grants and development specialist, and I have the honor of sharing and advocating for our mission and our work — generating funds and supportive community partnerships with different stakeholders in the Portland metro area.

And it is such an honor to be able to curate the narrative of CDA in collaboration with our team, and further the impact and the hopes and goals of the work that we do here.

Marnellie Bishop (04:24) Yeah, it’s been really great to have you on the team, Nia. When did you join? I can’t even — it feels like you’ve been here from the start. But when did you join?

Nia Harris (04:32) Yeah. Thank you for that question. I joined CDA almost three years ago — next month is my three-year anniversary with CDA. My longest-standing professional position. So I’m honored to be on this team.

Marnellie Bishop (04:45) I love it. Yeah. So, you know, Nia is getting the grants in order — to help us build our programs, to help us support more families, to help us have the capital funding to then train more doulas. But one of the other new pieces that we’ve added to the team — she’s only a year old in CDA — Jasmine Scott, our doula community manager. Tell people a little bit about yourself, Jasmine.

Jasmine Scott (05:15) Hi all, I’m Jasmine Scott. As Marnellie mentioned, I’m the doula community manager. I can’t believe it’s only been a year — I feel like I’ve been here longer, just because there was an instant connection with everybody, and I feel like I’ve known you all for so long. But yeah, my role really is focused on supporting the doulas and helping them build that initial connection with families — the referrals that come in. And then just really supporting families, allowing them to have a space to really just feel heard, and really share what their needs are. And also reminding them that, at the end of the day, they have a choice of what doula they want, what they’re looking for. And we’re just here to support that journey along the way.

Marnellie Bishop (06:00) Yeah. And so you’re only, like, an employee for one year, but you’ve been with the organization for almost two. So Jasmine, you took the CDA training in — what, 2024? Summer of 2024. And then we brought you in — was it 2024 we brought you in, in the fall? Yep. No —

Jasmine Scott (06:24) 2025.

Marnellie Bishop (06:26) 2025. But you started fall of 2024. We brought you on as a contractor, kind of — because this is where Nia’s role kind of came in. We’re like, hey, we know we want to expand, we know we want to grow, and one of the things we need to do is kind of offload some of the things that me and Kimberly were doing, and bring in — at the time, you were a doula coordinator. Now you’ve got this big fancy manager name on you, and it suits you well. And I feel like — I would say, if I was going to give a little note of gratitude to Jasmine: she’s really helped close the gap where we have some, you know — myself, Kimberly, we’re English-speaking. Yes, we can support and facilitate that cultural match for our doulas, but we have a lot of Spanish-speaking families, and now we also have a lot of Spanish-speaking doulas. So Jasmine’s really been able to kind of close that gap of language and understanding in the Latin community, where the word doula — the support of a doula — is a growing need. And then we got one more.

The lady over — at least in my screen — the lady to my right. Ali — Miss Ali Buchanan — tell our audience who you are.

Ali Buchanan (07:47) Well, it’s really funny how it all — it’s like the Brady Bunch! It’s like, where are we? It’s really funny how it all came full circle, because I was always in there, like, just helping where I needed to, and then finally I was like, let’s do this, let’s make it official. So now I’m official in CDA — managing, you know, the social media, the marketing, our communication strategy, and just really getting the word out and sharing what we do, and how that narrative — about the programs, about the work that we do — is shared. Like, that is so important, that people know what the impact is on the streets and in the communities. And with the doulas doing the work — like, that’s so important to share. And we’re doing that. And I’m so excited to be with all of y’all. It’s been so fun.

Marnellie Bishop (08:52) But this time, we actually get to speak it out. We get to speak it out! This is what we’re doing now.

Ali Buchanan (08:58) With all of the fun newness — and fifth year, right? We just celebrated our fifth year. We’re going to do some quick Q&A. I want to hear from everybody: who do you think is the mom of the group?

Nia Harris (09:14) Marnellie.

Kimberly Porter-Ukeje (09:18) Yeah, I think Marnellie, I would agree.

Marnellie Bishop (09:21) I’ve got a lot of ba— I’ve got a lot of babies. I trained — I was with at least ninety baby doulas put out in the world. If we look at our impact, right — our impact report — we show ninety baby doulas in the world. It’s okay, I’ll take it. I’ll take it. I am a mother in the real sense too. I’ll take it.

Kimberly Porter-Ukeje (09:44) Yeah, I would say definitely — Marnellie.

Ali Buchanan (09:45) Mama Marnellie, coming in.

Kimberly Porter-Ukeje (09:48) She knows everything. She knows every— we might not know what’s going on with each other, but she knows what’s going on with all of us. So, definitely, that’s the mama role. Keeping the house in order. All the parts.

Ali Buchanan (10:00) Número dos: who’s most likely to get emotional, even after five years?

Marnellie Bishop (10:07) I think it’s dependent upon where we are in our cycles.

Nia Harris (10:11) It’s Kimberly. It’s Kimberly, all day long.

Marnellie Bishop (10:14) Yeah, Kimberly all day long, every day. She’s got drive, she’s — like, here we go.

Kimberly Porter-Ukeje (10:24) Well, that’s what I was going to say — depending on… ’cause when we think of emotional, we think of, like, sadness, or, you know, crying and stuff. No — my emotional is based upon rage, and when it’s fight, and, you know, I elevate. Jasmine hears me all the time — I’m like, I’m just all over, like, this, I gotta do this — and you could feel it in my body and my energy. So yes, my emotion is more out of how to change things.

Nia Harris (10:49) Passion. Very passionate.

Marnellie Bishop (10:51) Yeah.

Nia Harris (10:52) Yeah.

Kimberly Porter-Ukeje (10:52) Yeah. I would agree with that. I think that that is true.

Marnellie Bishop (10:56) That is a very true statement. Like, especially if you — me and Jasmine are sitting in a room together, and Jasmine and I start to feel Kimberly’s energy, and we’re like, “Hold up — here it comes.”

Jasmine Scott (11:12) Very true.

Kimberly Porter-Ukeje (11:16) And I think that with Jasmine — you come in… Marnellie’s more rational about when I elevate. You’re more like, “Okay, this is — we can do that.” But Jasmine, I feel like you’re more — you wanna… I feel like you wanna give me some coffee, or you wanna always fix something. You always wanna give me something to calm me down. Like, you always do that. Always have something ready for me. And so — you both do it, but it’s in a different way.

Marnellie Bishop (11:40) We could call Jasmine — if there was going to be a question. I don’t know if you have that question, Ali. We’re going to call Jasmine “Tía.” Tía Jasmine. She’s the auntie that just kind of — she brings the bread, she brings the snacks. She’s just like, “Do you need a blankie, or a pillow?” That’s Jasmine.

Jasmine Scott (11:58) I got all those things in my pocket. I’m ready.

Nia Harris (12:01) Great.

Kimberly Porter-Ukeje (12:01) Always has a fix-it. “You need a charger, you need this, Kimberly, you need that.” Yeah, yeah, you need this. I’m like, “Dang, where did you—” I sometimes think you read my brain, of what I need, before I even get it. You’re ordering — it’s here, somebody’s delivering it at the door. Kind of like — Jasmine, I just… it was an idea, now it’s a product, it’s at the door.

Marnellie Bishop (12:22) Yeah.

Kimberly Porter-Ukeje (12:23) Definitely auntie.

Ali Buchanan (12:25) Okay. If we could describe the energy of the office — which I feel like we already got one, which is “passion” — what would be two more words that we would add to that?

Marnellie Bishop (12:35) Yeah, maybe “controlled chaos.” ‘Cause — I mean, I think we all come with really great and big ideas. And so then it takes all of our individual capacities to, like, distill it down, and soften it, or make it a process, implement it into the org, iron out details.

I think what I also appreciate about us as a team is, like, we can all come with all of our ideas, and we all listen, and we all hear, and then we say, “Okay, well, is that something that’s going to work for our team?” And we also always bring it back to alignment. Does it align with our mission and vision? Does it keep us rooted in what our goals are as an organization? So — “controlled chaos.” That was my two words in one.

Kimberly Porter-Ukeje (13:26) I would say — I think what I really appreciate about each and every one of you, and each of your roles, is that you have allowed me to vent. You have allowed me to be angry. You’ve allowed me to tell stories that last forever and ever and ever and ever. And then it’s not like I’m just venting, just talking — you guys put it in motion. “Okay, we’re going to get to this grant. Ali, I’m going to put it on social media.” Marnellie’s like, “Okay, I’m going to operationalize it.” Jasmine’s like, “I’m going to…” — I mean, you guys, like, you know — to be able to… Because most visionaries, they just have great ideas, but it doesn’t come to fruition. It’s just a belief, you know what I mean? You all have made it happen. Like, in real time. Especially with you — I mean, Ali too — but it’s like, when you and I talk, you’re always on. But then I see what you put on social media, and I’m like, “Oh my God, it’s just what I said.”

I think that’s what I really like — and I think that’s why CDA will always exist — is because I don’t have to do everything. Most CEOs — it’s always the top, you know — and most CEOs, there’s a leader, and they’re afraid. Like, kind of what we have with this administration: everybody’s afraid. No — everyone should be the lead, be the base, be the voice, but everyone should have a collective input, or area of expertise. And I think we do a really good job kind of staying in our lane, but also collectively coming together for the mission of CDA. So that’s what I really like — the fact that you all really allow everything that’s been in my brain for a long time to just actually come into practice. I mean, that’s the beautiful thing. Because my brain is getting clear. My brain was stuck with a bunch of thoughts, and I was just in there — my head was just… That’s why, when it comes out, you all like, “Oh my God” — but you guys hear me, and you actually really make it happen. And I think it’s beneficial not only to us as an organization, but then also to the doulas that we’re training, and then also the families that they serve. It’s beautiful.

Marnellie Bishop (15:15) Yeah. Really, really is. So — you’ve met our team. Let’s talk about some wins. So, I think, you know, the last time we recorded a podcast, we were in a different space. We were in a shared space, tucked up into one office, with the three of us on a podcast — you, Kimberly, and myself — with, like, our podcast support person recording. And we had another — we had one or two guests that came on. But since then, I think one of the biggest wins is that we’ve relocated to a new space. Jasmine’s in one of the offices of our space; I’m kind of out in the more community space of the Community Doula Alliance headquarters. And it just feels good to have our own space. We have a home. And in fact, some of what the doulas share, when we have our group meetings, is the appreciation that they have a home. I think that is something beautiful to witness. You know, we’re here, and we set up for our meetings, and we get the tables and chairs and the food ready. And then, when the doulas come in, you kind of see them do that little bit of release. They walk in and they’re like, “Okay — this is our space. This is our house.” If we really just kind of gave them permission, I think they’d all take their bras off.

Kimberly Porter-Ukeje (16:33) Yeah, they are that comfortable. Absolutely.

Marnellie Bishop (16:37) Yeah, yeah. Another big win — I mentioned it earlier, but, you know, we’ve had over ten cohorts of doulas come through our training. Which — I believe it should have been… yeah, 2021 is when our curriculum was approved by the Oregon Health Authority. And we have since renewed that curriculum, to continue teaching and training doulas to become listed on the traditional health worker registry as doulas, to then effectively bill Medicaid. So that’s one win that I would say. And because we’ve been able to do this growth — in one of our missions, right, which is workforce development — this has enabled, or required, us to bring on Jasmine. And so, Jasmine, you know, can you share with the audience a little bit about — what are some of the wins, and some of the experiences that you’ve had, as the doula community manager for this past year?

Jasmine Scott (17:34) Yeah, I would say some of the wins is really just being able to hold space for doulas to, like, grow — not only, like, professionally, but also allowing them the space to really just be themselves, and really help them navigate those connections with families. Another win, I would say — just because I am of the Latino community — is allowing Spanish speakers to really have that sense of autonomy, and being able to really voice their needs, and not just have a space where it’s chosen for them. And I would also say that, through different programs, being able to support them further than doula work — there are families that we support who really are just looking for certain resources. And I feel like, if it weren’t for programs that have come through grants, we would not be able to provide them with those resources. And I think, at the end of the day, just hearing how appreciative families and doulas are makes everything so worthwhile. But also, speaking of grants — I think Nia has some more info to share about that.

Nia Harris (18:41) Yes, thank you, Jasmine. So many beautiful wins. I’ll first start with celebrating our fifth-year anniversary last year, at our gala and anniversary celebration, where we were able to raise $9,275. We had just about a hundred people in attendance, and it was such a beautiful evening of cultural connection and acknowledgement and celebration — and just beautiful, beautiful Black and brown folks in the room. And we were just so glad to bring people around our mission of maternal and perinatal health equity. And the celebration continues — last year we also closed out our second year of Give!Guide, exceeding our goal and being able to bolster our fundraising efforts in the organization, which is crucial to sustaining our mission. Since I started three years ago, I think I’ve written grants that have resulted in just about three-quarters of a million dollars in grant money and funding to CDA. So that is amazing. And I’m so happy to be stewarding that work, in partnership with Marnellie especially, and, of course, the whole team. Ali is my partner in crime — we’re constantly tackling the intersections of our work between development and marketing, and curating story and narrative to really boost the sharing of our impact, and the development of our narratives. I also gotta highlight our partnerships — with Nurturely and our Milk Magic program, Oregon Doula Association and developing our mentorship program, Meyer Memorial Trust funding our Healing Black Birth Initiative in partnership with OHSU (of course), Washington County, and the amazing doula work that we’ll discuss a little bit more in depth on a later podcast. And we’re just so excited to be fully immersing ourselves in community in Portland, and also creating national connections that we hope will continue to expand. So, so many beautiful wins.

Marnellie Bishop (20:46) Yeah. And I want to highlight that partnership that has kind of evolved — the partnership between Nia and Ali. Like, I think that’s what has made the narrative — the language that’s been put out on grants — it equals, it matches, what is being put out to the general public, right? Like, if you were a grant review team, and you went to the CDA website or CDA social media channels, you’re going to see that what I’m reading on my grant matches what I’m seeing in the content they put out. We have nothing to hide, because we’ve operated in a way that shows integrity — that is true to our mission and vision. And I think we’ve been a quiet voice, but it’s loud in other ways. But I think now, in these next five years, we’re going to be a little bit more louder externally too.

Kimberly Porter-Ukeje (21:51) And I also want to add to that — when it comes to, you know, when Nia, you’re going out for funding and, you know, trying to get us more money for the organization to sustain itself — is that I feel like, even though we’re new, we’re doing things that… I know I’ve worked for nonprofits that haven’t done these things in twenty years, right? We’re doing it quickly, right? And I think the reason that’s the case is because I’ve been in nonprofits for thirty-two years, and I’ve learned what not to do — what’s not successful, how to avoid staff burnout. You know, what we have with Mary coming in and doing reflective supervision, and supporting the doulas, and stuff like that. So I think that, for me, I really look back on the history of kind of how I came into this work — it’s about making sure that our nonprofit is different than the other ones. So that’s why I think, when we go for grants, you’re like, “Oh my gosh, you’ve done, like, all the checkboxes.” Every time we go and we interview, they’re impressed. Because most of them have been there for 10 years, and they don’t even have these things, and they can’t even answer the question — they’re still in the process. We’re on the activation side of it, right? I’ve noticed that on their faces. They’re like, “Oh my gosh, wow,” ’cause they’re so used to — they’re not going to have this. And we know all this conversation. We’re like, “No, we have the answer. Okay, can we move forward?” You know? Like, we’re ready, we’ve been ready. We’re showing up. Like, that’s why we did the application — ’cause we’re ready. And a lot of times, folks are not ready. They’re still in the process, trying to figure it out.

And so they’re probably not going to get the funding, where — for us, we just want to know, how much more can you give us? Not whether you’re going to give it to us — we know we’re going to qualify — but how much more can you give us? Because we deserve all of it. And so that’s what I think is really good about, you know, how the grants set out, and Nia’s going for them, and your position, and the confidence, Nia, that you have. Because some grant writers are kind of meek and quiet — you really advocate for us. You’re like, “No, I think we deserve this amount, and these are the reasons why.” I really like that about you. And so — I feel like I’m your auntie — you’re ready to challenge the status quo. You put that out, and I love that.

Nia Harris (23:56) And you help me with that, Kimberly, for sure. Your leadership inspires my confidence and my assertiveness, and I’m very happy to learn and to increase my ability to display those qualities. So I appreciate you for that as well.

Marnellie Bishop (24:14) You mentioned something that I feel is also a big win for our organization, Kimberly — and that is the fact that, you know, you’re a therapist by profession and by training. And I think one of the things that you really champion, for our organization and for our doulas, is their mental wellness and their well-being. And I think one of the new things that we’ve introduced to our doulas this year has been what we call our Circle of Care — which is kind of our wellness group setting, where doulas can come and share, to a third party, their experience, and do some of that processing with some of the more complicated scenarios that they are witness to. And so, yeah — we brought on a therapist to support our doulas in, like, a reflective counseling and consultation setting. And then those doulas even get one-on-ones with Mary, who is our consultant we’ve brought on. And we’ve already heard some great feedback from the doulas about having that resource. And we’ve also had some good insights from Mary, and what she’s hearing, and how we can continue to structure and create these systems that continue to support our doulas.

And then I would say the big, fun new thing is the development of a new program. So, one of the big programs that we had — that started in 2023, Kimberly — is that… when you kind of started talking to Washington County. So, Washington County Office of Minority Health, and specifically with Health and Human Services, submitted an RFA to a federal grant, and they partnered with us to develop and pilot a program called the Douly Model program. It’s a home visiting model that enables us to really meet families in their homes, and where they’re at, and then kind of spread — or extend — wraparound services to these families. Because doulas — the scope of a doula can be very limiting, or perceived as very limiting. But here at Community Doula Alliance, our goal is for them to truly be community-based doulas. And what does a community-based doula mean? It means you are a doula, but you also have access to resources, and you are able to share those resources of support to families, and meet people in their home, and be of their community. And so it’s exciting — we’re currently in year three of the grant. So we’re kind of in launch phase. So I’m excited to share about that in an upcoming episode, about our Douly Model.

Kimberly Porter-Ukeje (27:06) And I also want to add more to that. I wasn’t going to talk about the Douly Model, but I have to talk about how — like, when we talk about CDA and how it’s grown, and how we’re, you know, newbies in this landscape of doulas and nonprofits and things like that — but I can honestly say, with pride: I am the visionary behind the Douly Model. That was all my idea. And you can talk to Washington County, and they’ll say, “Yeah.” And it goes back to my thirty-two years of being a home visitor, being a doula, being a therapist. Like — for those of you in the audience who will learn more about the Douly Model — that is the framework. It started from that: home visitors, community health workers, how to support doulas in a way in which they’re dealing with a lot of trauma with some of our families. But that Douly Model was just like CDA — it was my brain. That was my brain. Washington County — Evan and Tabria — put all that… they mixed that with me, and they just cut out my brain and put it on paper. Just like Marnellie does — just put it on paper. And now that’s what you see: the Douly Model. I just want to say, since we are women of color, and a lot of times — we know, in most of our professional spaces, things have been taken from us, or we don’t get credit for it — I want to make sure that we get credit for it, right? And it was created by me, by a Black woman. CDA is created by all of us, and we maintain that. So I think that we need to be loud about our achievements, our education, our experience — who we are as women of color — that we are as competitive as anyone else, maybe more so competitive than other people. So I think it’s important — and we do that. And so it’s not just about us addressing public health issues, improving birth outcomes, but it’s also for us, as women of color, to have leadership positions, and be an expertise in our field, our scope of practice. I always want to say that, because a lot of times people are like, “them,” and I’m like — I am them. This is who — you’re over here looking for somebody else. We’re right here. Like, it just never — it’s like a unicorn. “Well, who created the Douly Model?” Well — over here. Okay? There’s a real person, right? It’s not some magical thing that happened, that somebody wrote — somebody had to put it together, just like when Nia puts the grants together. Somebody has to do that, right? And that person, in our case, is one of us. It’s a woman of color. And that’s what I love — to see that in every way, in everything that we do. And we need to voice that. We need to represent ourselves — no matter what: if it’s marketing, if it’s finance, if it’s management, if it’s leadership. I want us to always — like I said, that’s why I kind of mentor Nia — it’s like, be proud, be confident when you go into these spaces and speak. ‘Cause we have the intelligence, probably more so. But I think we lack the confidence in these predominantly white-dominated spaces, and we need to show up just like everybody else — with our breasts out, or whatever — and just be strong and say, “Yeah, I’m qualified as well. Let’s have this conversation about my community.”

Ali Buchanan (30:15) There was so much that happened in five years. Like, so much. I can’t wait until we do the next couple episodes to share even more about the Douly program — and, like, what’s coming up. Because we’re going to be here! We have another five years, and then some, that we’re going to be continuing to lower cesarean rates, provide family wraparound support — all of these things. So thank you all for sharing and talking with us. And I hope that everybody listening continues to follow along, support us — support us in our journey. And any final words, team?

Marnellie Bishop (30:51) I would say: follow along on our journey. You know, join our newsletter that comes out monthly — and Ali does a great job making sure to give our viewers, our readers, as many updates as we’re able to push out. And then follow us on social media, right? Like — if we can increase our numbers, the algorithm’s going to push us out into the faces of funders, and people interested in becoming doulas, people interested in needing a doula. That’s the power of word of mouth. And so we’d like you to be our mouths out there. Go tell it on the mountain! Tell — tell — we’re over here.

Ali Buchanan (31:35) All right. Well, thank you so much, everybody. And stay tuned for the next episode. Bye, y’all!

Marnellie Bishop (31:41) Bye. Bye.